What's your anti-drug?
that helps you not to loose your brain and go "dope"?

Mine is watching tv ,beating my kid brother with his own nunchucks and going to work and sometimes when there's no TV it's knitting socks.

but I smoke cigaretes at work so these could be called addictions as well but they help me work. :0-

anybody here also hate the creations of people intoxicated and manipulated by addictions like Ozzy , Jim Morrison , Pink Floyd?

Whatever's at hand...
..., inc a glass of cold water or a cold beer, a ciggy, kick-boxing, swearing in a chatroom, meditation, medication , jogging, writing, whistling, reading, sending a 'V' sign, or...though I try not to stick to any! (Confession: was not so successful with the net!)

Also...addiction is 1 thing & creativity another:

Mr X who uses heroin, & also happens to be a gifted musician who may (or may not)create something beautiful & new. His cousin Ms Y, when runs out of 'stuff' wd even strangle his wife to get her purse & buy dope from the nearest pusher! Still their neighbor Ms 'Z'(ee) takes the EZee way out & gets down to 'BIZ' to supply her dope! And the poor soul 'T' (maybe also a teenager?), tries to look equally 'post-modern', 'enlightened' & 'gutty' as the rest, & takes X, LSD, Crack or.. & ends up either freaking out, or taking his 1st (& last) filght off the n'th floor of a high-riser in a rich & 'classy' neiborhood!


Yet, let's not forget that all these peeps r 1 way or another ILL people who need our help, support & emathy; & NOT congenital criminals; & that none of us 'clean' folks r by any means entitled to insult &/or despise them. Also ( & who knows?) maybe we too will 1 day end up as 1 of 'em! Impossible!!!!? Well that's what THEY said too....

And mr F gets so cranky on his workdesk that he Fs mr U and mr.U goes home, strangles his wife Mrs.F and writes a song about it ,that is a one hell of a song.. and children are starving everywhere , everyminute every-second.

Meditate and preform any deeds you think that helps you gather information for a Better Natural livinghood or just balance your "Force"...

Some just don't see it as simple as you do, some don't want to wait for another 2O01: A Space Odyssy to show them new realities and memes, some can visualise people in different clothes , others can visualise other people in their clothes.

Others don't like to watch films on static screens.

addiction is 1 thing & creativity another:
Schwartzeneger is very strong & Stephen Hawkings is very strong , strong is 1 thing and strong is another as well.

Please specify those people which aren't Ill uncle, What's Healthy to you, for you?

If you think that you're not addicted to anything enough to ever want to strangle somebody I hail to you with kudos dear sir, just remember that a there's the kind of toochache that'll make many people sell their friends.

Unless you don't see that love can also makes people strangle people ,why won't you fight against information and love , these two things can get people really hooked.

Also I wonder how come you don't see the charming rituals in the drug culture.

I frankly believe that without the power of herbs and chemicals many memes overpowering those that are a bottlneck for others might take a very long and hard way to surface. negative or postivie , just let them surface and let me choose.

Hello Valentine
Thnx for ur comments. I'll try not to exceed my quota of 2048 characters:1.children who cannot be fed with even the full & undivided attention of those who're supposed to feed them r not so likely to be fed when their saviors r experiencing an 'enema of genius',heightened awareness,euphoria or a freak-out,2.one better visalize ppl as they r,not as (s)he'd rather have them,3.There r many heroes to choose from (although I don't have 1),but if I had to choose 1 I'd choose Clapton rather than Hendrix,3.Schwartzenger uses drugs to stay in shape,Hawkins to stay alive, 4.yes,I'm also hooked on my pipe & my puter,but wd not rather strangle all 'dull nerds' who seem to me to be downright daft (even dafter than myself!),5.If 'love','info' or whatever else,also happen to be used as a tool by gangs who survive on the frail dying bodies of their victims,smothering everything they have to SELL them sweet 'forgetfulness'& the EZ way out of 'now'(& hey who cares about 2 hrs later man!?),they too better be fought with (wish I cd, but I can't, so I won't!),6.Charming? well maybe, changing anything in the long run? no certainly not, enslaving? well I bet u'd say no (but u know my answer!),7.There r other natural, less expensive,less ultimately so 'softly!? killing' ways to help ur talents(which using their last breaths despite ur immense & seemingly irrevokable denial yearn to make their way out to the surface),8.Yes some r different no doubt, but don't let ur local pusher tell u 'how' & convince u that (s)he's got the panacea to make this difference make 'all the difference'!,9.Talent is NOT to be administerred by an 'enema',& out of the many great talents who've made the world a less boring place for u to live in, only a hanful may've used some stuff(& note that they've only used it as 1 uses a screw driver or toilet paper)to help let their talents out b/c they didn't even WANT to know about any other possible ways,10.Still this Mr'whatever u'd rather call him'is &'ll be around to be of some help to u if u want him to.
Cheers

Could you please share your information regarding those other natural, less expensive,less ultimately softly killing ways to help my talents?

and are those less expensive in currency or less charging from your phisical "health"? or both perhaps?

Do you actually have any idea for how long are humans been practicing on various arrange of drugs? and for how long do drug "pushers" exist until now?

Some even claim that many of them (pushers) are responsible for evolution.

...(& also Happy) Valentine!
I typed another 2048 characters in ur reply which thnx to the 'bad bad server' vanished into thin air. So I'll try to be a bit briefer this time, hoping the 'bad bad sever' won't act out as badly as it did last time!
B4 talking about these ways, let me remind u that these 'ways' r diff from case to case, & hence mus be INDIVIDUALIZED. So I neither recommend watching '2001', nor '2005', nor do I encourage u or our other pen-pals to meditate or practice kick-boxin!
However, if u feel like answering some Qs (on b1/2 of urself or others), plz tell me 1st if 'we' have: 1.tried to even solve a tiny bit of our probs B4 trying to 4get them, 2. have knocked at as many doors around us as there r (some1 WILL usually answer, u got my word!)3.noticed that the lil nice 'nowherewonderland' we seek refuge to, is only as viable as it takes the stuff to get out of our bloodstream & pissed away down the loo? 4.that although we r 'chemical' (or at least also chemical) beings, manipulating this v fragile & delicate chemistry of ours (which I too don't claim to result in anything even near 'healthy' or 'sane', though more likely so if left intact) dz NOT give us solutions, but only ILLUSIONS of solutions, & over time screw it all up so as to leave us with only a 'tunnel vision' (if a vision at all!),5.that there's usually MORE than 1 single solution to every prob (inc boredom, employment, paradoxes,...& love)? 6.got enough sleep, rest (& by that I don't mean mountanineering or boozing until we puke it all), a minimally proper nutrition; & for a change <!> (if not anything else) also a job, 7.& last (though not least) ever given ourselves the trouble to think what has forced us to try to tolerate &/or experience things AS THEY R, 'another way' in the 1st place!?

1 more thing valentine: any cliche or meme is real ENOUGH (at least as much as an illusion, hallucination, etc...) to prompt a search for it's underlying logic.

Waiting for ur further comments
<Ur old, naggy 'n cranky uncle>

I try not to speak on behalf of others , I speak in be-half of myself , that fact that somebody categorizes me as the others is indeed a problem.

1.Did I try to ever solve problems before forgetting them?
'Problems' is very relative you know and what's a problem for me doesn't makes it a problem for anybody else induvidualy, the answer is that one of the solution of solving some problems is also 'for-geting' them, doing whatever is satisfactory to not want to deal with them again, unless they posses no longer a problem to you.

2. I usually don't knock and try the door if it's open, because some people just don't like opening doors anyway and will not bother screaming it's open.

I also talk to people on the street casually and usually scared of people knocking into my dreams.

3. everywhere is a nowherewhere land , it's your reality , It's hard for me to see how unless somebody is extreamly narrowminded he can follow anybody else's reality , neverland , reallity tunnels call it as you may , they change every mondday for some people and wash down the pisstream anyway.

4. if you're so scared about 'infecting' or altering the chemical balance of your bodyshell with intoxicants I would become a bobble boy if i were you and weren't a hypocrite.

Sane to some is insane to others as is gold is shit to some.

4. everything is an ilussion for solution but until you convince yourself or others that it works or might work , that's how fiction materializes,a self profilling prophecy, and sometimes a goal oriented narrow vision is nessecery.

5. yeah and there are times when you can use not one of many solutions but combine all these solutions together and use them as one hell of a solution , but most people don't see it unless they're on coke , so what?

6. Some people don't get enough sleep , nutrition or sunlight ,but they really enjoy their job and live more marily than those who do get all the above.

7. many times I recall what I wasn't able to put attention to before and analyze how it got me to today, usually it's more common to triggered by drugs for the my attention is more focused, I wouldn't ever say that my attention is not focused but I
really learn more about it and how much more focused it can be every time I am on something that throws me to another balanace , makes another voice in my head speak and not about itself like the other one does.

I personally don't see how any of the things you've mentioned are discouraging from the use conciousness altering substances.

I see many people who could really use a rude awakening.

I see how psychedelic substances as much as a good friend , and best with a good friend can help people who are carried too far by their convinced beliefs in a 'modern' world that can't tollerate these.

A word is a virus , but some people are deaf or unintentionaly have built themselves a firewall.

A psychedelic drug is a strong virus that can hack trough many strong walls, like a very vivid dream of which you remember all.

And about loosing brains and going dope, that's one very "well" put phrase by a literally genious.

Who said people are loosing their brains , is it the activity in their brain ceases to a lesser level of activity we are able to monitor with the tools we posses today?

Or do they loose contact with their communicating bodies perhaps, becoming autists?

Autists are bad = healthy people are good;
is the formula I see here.

Some people are better to me without brains than the brains they use.

But again who's to say what's better until they've got a hold of the "absolute truth" if there's such to base it on.

You can only say what's indvidually better you for and your friends and most of the time it's better that way because you want it to be so, you can speculate what's better for humanity , or even Gaia and the creatures on it, most common speculations in most people is that "change is bad for everybody", by that they cause change themselves because some people just don't like others telling them what to do.

Hello Miss 'Different',

I'm glad to see u've come around to use the 1st person singular as ur preferential mode of expression at last(though not so consistently yet). However u still seem to like to adhere to the 2nd person plural when it comes to issuing ur injunctions. (I don't mind, but other members may!)

Un4tunately due to the famous 'bad bad server',&/or my even 'bader' ISP (& it's filters!), &/or my puter (the 'baddest' villain of all); I'm unable to type for more than a min or so & therefore 'll have to send my reply in the form of multiple short posts.

Well, 1. I still can't see how 4getting about things is a solution? Take the case of the starving kids u mentioned b4.If we can't feed 'em all (though we may be able to feed a couple nxt door..),dz that mean we better close our eyes & '4get' them altogether, or try to 'inspire' ourselves c the aid of a substance to enable us to see them as little angels & martyrs (ins of getting them a slice of bread to bite on)!?? Do u really call this a 'solution'? 2.Good, but not all smiley faces behind open doors r friendly ppl, & not all frowny 1s sitting or slumbering behind closed doors r fiendish. Anyhow, maybe it's about time we stop daydreaming!
3.But we happen to live, love, eat, dream, piss, & communicate mainly in THIS lil shitty nowhereland (don't we)? So let's not screw it up any further in search of a promised 'heaven', 'nirvana', or 'wonder/whatever'land. 4.Baseball & 'foot'<!?>ball, mind u, happen to be among my least favorite sports, but yess I DO care about the millions of neurones dying or going nuts prematurely, whether they belong to u, others or myself; & whether or not u or others give a damn about them too. 5.I disagree! A panoramic view is what we need (though maybe not what we WANT) to save our *sses here in this world, even & ESPECIALLY if there r lots of 'unpleasant' things around. Still, simply closing the eyes is less toxic, costly (both ways!), & trouble making for ourselves & the rest.6.(1)Glad to hear that!6.(2)'So what'!!? So...it's a 'coky' way out, NOT a solution!7.Well how about trying glue, nitrogen oxide (an anaesthetic & quite 'fun' too) or mescaline, (or even chewing the whole barbed cactus)!? They too create hightened awareness like our more 'conventional' & 'socially acceptable' nicotine & caffeine! STILL note that, although they may help to make us 'sharper' at the beginning, soon we'll inevitably wind up taking 9 step leaps 4ward, followed by 10 step leaps backward (at least!). More Later...

By the panoramic view you're into; you're trying to conclude that: drugs are only dangerous and it's better without them?

A hell of a panorama there.

If you combine all the worlds together in a jar you won't have a panoramic view , how do you know what's 'better' for anybody other than yourself or a culture you think you fully understand?

By forgetting you hide information , everything is information , music is information ,drugs are information , no argue there of what's more of an information and which information is positive or negative the more there's information the more options there are to choose from (from your very narrow or wide arange of information but never the whole all information ,ever forever, alltogether), Try to concentrate on thinking that you're drawing , not on the drawing but thinking of the process itself , you're constantly aware that you're drawing and it's hard to flow while you know that hell you're drawing and cows are slaughtered and children are dying , how morally can you afford yourself to continue drawing in such times or even having fun with your wife or bringing any more children into the world?

Children , I bet you'll get quite mad if you found out that your son is smoking once a joint a month or drops MDMA at some party ,it won't be a satisfactory to you because you already certain of the most possible outcome from your past experiance with people you might know to have been using drugs and needing your and everybody's help, Criminology as much as psychology is the study of fuck-ups , the crimes that don't pay, the mental "illnesses" that 'don't pay', therefore a crime/illness that criminology or psychology don't have a hold of could be the best thing ever for either the criminal or the mentallyillman, until the grave of course.

Now instead of assuring that your son won't get ripped off , or poisoned not by the poison of his choice but by a poison that he wouldn't have chosen for himself if he 'only knew'.

Regarding mescaline , any day now I am on it.

If I am not mistaken you're a vegeterian , now I would gladly become a vegeterian myself and not for the reason that I am aware that animals have feelings , since I think that carrots probably have feelings too and are as social as cows and somebody might miss them, the meat industry is an ugly thing in our world , it's ugly because it destroys more food than it creates , because it does all the dirty work for the people who would piss their pants before they had to shoot or even slice an animal to eat it, corporations have destroyed whole harvests only due its lack of a commercial profit to them.

Will I demoralize a man who fishes or shots something to eat it? I think I won't.

Now people fight against our new meat culture for various reasons , do they fight against people who decide that they want to eat meat as well, people who know all the factors i've mentioned above?

You know something I don't know ,everybody does knows a lil' something that exists in their world but doesn't exists in someone else's, i'll be glad to hear it not trying to dodge you, but it's for me to choose if it has any value in mine ,if it's not already there attentionless for a current list of importance.

When you see a drug person will you be sure that he needs help or solely ask yourself that maybe he needs help?

Hidding meat as hidding drugs and even remembering why you hid them it in the first place and have it archived and titled as a pandoras box doesn't needs anyone to remember the reason or consider it as regarding them, before trying either meat or drugs again, another reason might arise and it's only the values and attention of the participant that makes the slaughter for survival or the drugs for wider information what they are.

Go argue that pandoras box is all old news and nothing new can't come from it, punch people who will try to open it , it's your choice after all, and you can never know the concequences of either you punching that man or him doing knowing what he thinks he knows ,even explaining it to you but your mind can't comprehend any new trick with that box, no risk is worth taking, you rather do all your way until you die than take that risk. There are no fast solutions. are there?

Everything can happen to anyone, I am not saying "it won't happen to me" but if you repeativly try and you don't succeed your current life , it's over , nothing worths living in it anymore , and in that moment you just need to change the reason which keeps you going to survive.

It's all bullshit, but who knows maybe someone will agree it's a bullshit that worths living with in mind.

Hey u've asked ...
..some good & 'relevant' Qs up there, haven't u? Still, it's quite alot to deal with (let alone answer) in a single post for ur old retirin uncle! But thnx anyhow, caz u're increasingly asking the same Qs I want u to ask, & hence make it a hell of a lot EZier for me on the whole!

Still there r other net pals elsewhere to say 'hi' to here in Orkut & elsewhere (& the 'kids r starving too!), so I'll have to come back to these 3 masterpieces of urs later. (Plusss u'll have more time to collect ur desired amount of info against(!?) me.

(Take ur time sonny..Oops! Sorry, daughter.) BBL

1.A panoramic view is what we're born with. A 'tunnel vision' is what we end up with. Those who turn the former into the latter include: 1.One’s parents, 2. 1's culture (whether fully, partially, or not at all understood), 3. 1's teachers (school, college, etc…), 4. 1’s ‘shamans’ (bishops, rabbis, clerics, brahmans, etc..), 5.1’s friends & peers, 6. THE MEDIA, &…to mention the most important 1s.
Most kids start their struggle with the outside world in an attempt to be like/accepted among/approved by others. If they r not successful, some will start to fight for the other ‘alternatives’ subconsciously; i.e that they r ARE DIFFERENT (& probably superior too= a subconscious EZ way out called, ‘denial’), coming up with the conclusion that every1 (maybe except themselves & those who approve them) is stupid (& hence that they better not be like the rest), the world’s a ‘shitty place’, there r 2 types of ppl: those who think like them, & those who don’t, that the 2nd gp r always out to get the better of & screw up the 1st gp (who’ve been ‘victimized’ in this ‘cruel shitty world’, comprehensible by none except THEM)= TUNNEL VISION!
IF they have certain physical & mental predispositions, they’ll be attracted to dope, which will in turn will make the ‘tunnel’ an even narrower, & an increasingly 1way one; & hence an endless vicious cycle.
2. I was told by my teacher back at primary school, that I was as daft & senseless as a ‘cabbage or carrot’! I there4 always tend to think that cabbages, cucumbers & carrots can’t ‘feel’. Moreover, some ‘scientologists’ told me later at high school that those fly eating plants, or the 1s that pull themselves 2gether when touched, don’t really ‘feel’, but a certain ‘sensitive’ (& NOT sensory) mechanism makes them act like that. Anyhow maybe I shd quit taking carrots too!

1.Yes a software 'virus' or 'worm' is also a piece of info, so what!?
2.If u think by not drawing my cat, or having fun with my wife, or having more children (mind u I've only got 1, who according to a 'scientologist' is considered any old uncle’s modest 'debt/share' to/of evolution); OK then, as of 2morrow I'll start to have more cats, draw my wife, & have fun with my kid instead <!>; to prevent my cows from being slaughtered, & ur kids from starving, ie another brilliant dopy solution like ur generalizations about ‘information’ up there, & about ‘not being addict being a kind of addiction in itself’ elsewhere (according to ur theory, apparently all children r born with an addiction, out of whom a no of nerds decide to swim upstream & develop a new kind of addiction called ‘not being addict)!
3.MORALLY!!? Ooh, wow! What a gal!? R u feelin all right!? Tell u what: if instead of living in a room in ur dad’s home, sittin in front of ur monitor with ur walk/diskman, cell phone, mouse, web cam, bubble gums, lollipops & other ‘stuff’ ‘n toys, & spending the pocket money he’s givin u on dope & other goodies ; u wd spent 1 full day in the places where I’ve worked & still work voluntarily, & where u’d not even spit or piss (let alone work or even take a post modern dada pic with a puking pal after the ‘thrill is gone’), u’d stop philosophizing & lecturing me about morality & ethics!
4.I don’t know if my kid’s tried ‘em yet or not. If he has, da chances r, 1: he’ll take ‘em just as an experience (much like farting in a sauna, using a screw driver ins of a kitchen utensil , or a piece of toilet paper to wipe of ur tears or runny nose if u have to; all of which may only be ‘handy’ at times, but certainly NOT the 1 & only 1 & ultimate panacea ); OR, 2.he too, like many others will take the EZ way out of his troubles, & try to see things ‘differently’,& to ‘wash’, ‘piss’, ‘puke’, ‘sleep off’ or ‘freak’ them out by dope! So what!? (In either case none of us can prove their points, can we!?)
5.Take it EZ!
(More Later)

You and your cat've just made a Vicious Cycle yourselves.

Allow me to recategorize it to something more up to date,the way I see it, which probably twists my fundamentals:

1.A panoramic view is what we're born with. A 'tunnel vision' is what we end up with. [That's something I can't disagree with because I really have no idea, but I can say "tunnel visions" ,vision as plural, vision as 'reality'] Those who turn the former into the latter include [in order of 'interests', the interests of whom are most furfilled in this game]:
bishops, clerics, rabbis, brahmans, shamans etc.. [they pretty much used to control 'cultures' and still pretty much do but they don't work solely for themselves anymore because in their category of weight and above you can include CORPORATIONS] Goverments are controlled by all the above, and Media EDUCATION are the ones with a power over 'One’s parents'.

Now call me a fucking loony paranoid and tell me it's not at all like, that people are more powerful alone than a group of people. and here's the hook trap uncle.

Parents being people make the choice anyway , they do , they choose to live in such a society unless in the case they can not leave borders , people I know are aware of all mentioned above some are idle , others they're trying hard to take power, to make their interests count, Many families and indviduals are rebels in these modern civilized times.

Now apply known to you psychology onto that, what do you get? all the same?

IF they have certain physical & mental predispositions, they’ll be attracted to being law enforcement on a power trip, firefighters searching for adrenaline , workaholics working in cubicles under neon pumped on coffee, sweatshop shoe makers, which will in turn will make the ‘tunnel’ an even narrower, & an increasingly 1way one; & hence an endless Mrs. Parkers Vicious Circle .

A dopy generalization about information is the concideration of everything as information?

How is living in a room in my dad’s home, sittin in front of his monitor with his walk/diskman, cell phone, mouse, web cam, bubble gums, lollipops & other ‘stuff’ ‘n toys, & spending his money he’s givin to be my own 'pocket money' on dope & other goodies any worse than you enjoying your life with your wife and your son and then doing what you choose to do because you want to ,
knowing that you can't even spit or piss there not to mention philosophizing if it was me..

What ethics , what morals, I didn't claim to have any , I am a drug taker and pusher unlce ... and you , You're getting cranky, dissolve em' boundaries before the thrill is gone for you as my pukin' pal...

So you admit that drugs are handy?

Did I ever mentioned the existance of anything ultimate?

What was my point in all of these posts , Did I try to push you into taking drugs? I just wanted to see if you react and interact , put yout attention to ideas you are quite extreamly biased against because of your point of view and experiance, and in my opinoin , your reallity tunnel , it's quite narrow with which regards drugs.

You only know the fuck ups and it's enough for you to convince yourself that that's not something you want yourself and the community around you to be a part of so I compromise on that.

For you it's not; dealing with problems by trying to get away of them or discipline people not to play with 'dangerous toys' other than play with them in a less dangerous way, it's other logic there, which I don't grok.

Worse or better!? I onder if there’s anything u cd call to be clearly ‘better’ or ‘worse, caz this is just a matter of taste (or the so-called angle of view).There is 1 tiny lil difference however Valentine: I’m spending my own money for my own purposes. U r spending some1 else’s! (By the way dz ur dad give u pocket money for this purpose, if I may ask!?) Come on! Stop riding some1 else's horse, get off & come down & join me as a foot soldier, a simple lil 'walker' playing a’ walk on part’ in the drama called, life!
The places I've mentioned r full of ppl who also 1 day chose to say ‘no’, NO MATTER WHAT THE Q WAS; because it was fun, it felt so great to be different, it was a good & easy way out of having to solve their probs; a good way for confronting the fear of being left alone or not loved, of death, & also of having to live with these fears (the fear of being afraid of something, mind u, is the most fearsome of all fears); but who r NOW finding themselves in a dead end, wishing they were never born! Most were ‘recreational’ drug users at the beginning. Not so surprisingly most r not only NOT from poor families, illiterate, daft or …but from quite well to do ones with a good pocket money , rather articulate & mostly with a high school diploma, university degree, &/or a good extent of vocational training.
Their days r mostly divided into 3 parts: 1. Sleep (if they can get some), 2.wakefulness: spent craving & seeking the stuff they’re on, 3.sleep again (oops, sorry…and an occasional raw with a nagging parent, social worker, teacher, etc.. or worse, a detention at the local police station)! Some r already HIV +ve & waiting for their hour to come, some wish ‘they’d die’ 10s of time each day. Some yearn to be back at the (st)age when they started to say ‘no’ jus to look or sound different, braver or more ‘intellectual’ than; or superior to others, etc…

Whether it is I, or u, or both of us who is/r getting cranky, life is not at all as ‘hanky-panky’ as u might think! Life is a BATTLE Valentine, whether or not we like it: (try not to breath in or out; let alone eating, pissing, blowing ur nose, etc..& u’ll see what I mean), a FULL SCALE & round-the-clock BATTLE which needs GUTS to fight! Now u may choose to fight it with ur fists & teeth, ur brains, all 3; or drugs. And ‘drugs’ (v broadly speaking, but maybe also inc. the 1s we’re talking about here) have their uses, much in the same way a toothbrush , a handkerchief, a pen &..have; ie they may (but also may not) help us (in this case usually by ‘buying us some time’) to get BACK into ‘shape’ & to solve our problems OUR WAY and by OURSELVES.
Take the simple case of aspirin. This lil ‘pill’ won’t TREAT my headache; which cd be due to sinusitis, a bang on my head by my stupid teacher, hitting my head against the wall when I run out o stuff, migraine, a brain tumor or…It only gives me the opportunity to suffer less 4 a while, so that I can focus on my prob & try to find out what the hell is wrong with me!
As for the native American Indians, I don’t remember having scoffed such a thing. (Have I?) However a lil warning: if u too happen to’ve read Carlos Castaneda’s series of 9 or 10 (or more?) books about his mentor, pusher & master, ‘Don Juan’; plz note that although there’re quite a no. of good points in his books, but that they r buried among tons of non-sense, 10s of tons of experiences clearly related to illusions & hallucinations (& not presumably miracles or gateways into other dimensions!), & megatons of jumping at conclusions using the subtly modified & commercial Hollywood type crap! (Books r there to jus read & THINK about , & not necessarily to believe & follow step by step; whether they be the 1s allegedly sent ‘down’ to us, or published by other 2-legged creatures & available on the rack as best sellers.)

Erratum!
I need to correct myself on a truly inadvertent mistake I’ve been making for a no of wks. now, ie thinking that that our prolific contributor, Mr. Valentine, is Ms. Valentine (though fundamentally not important as such); & hence calling him ‘Miss’, ‘Daughter’, ‘Gal’ , etc…& …, This was by no means meant to insinuate anything, it’s only that it was a bit difficult for me to judge by skimming through his profile & album twice (with nearly 3 wks in between), whether I’s dealing with a Mr or Ms, & more so because I’m usually not in the habit of replying my pen pals on the basis of the info they provide in their profile (usually not so reliable , as prob in my own case too!); but in response to what they say in their posts.

So here we r Valentine : I.O.U 1! { ;) }

Back to work! Let’s get the wheel turning again & have ur further comments on the subject Valentine & ALL.

Ars Longa, Vita Brevis
(‘Art’ is long, life is short)

Cheers All
Parviz

Ohh come on , I can become Miss Valentin any time now , it's not that hard nowdays and many of my friends call me miss as well when I gigle like a Japanese girl,which I do alot, now listen the truly inadvertent mistake you've been doing so far is assuming that some plants like hemp are more dangerous on the social -healthy citizens- scale than plants like coffee or tea.

Now if you'de care to give your opinion on the question I've asked in the next topic we'll be able to preceed n' turn the wheel, make us rich..

1.IMPARTIAL , your attempt of putting things in two categories "addict" or "nonaddict" is irrelevant , if I like something I can consider myself automatically an addict , the factor is the dosage, the frequency and the aftermath, which can never be counted on  by the past experiance of yourself.

Most of the dangers from the research you probably base your aftermath on is bogus or is caused by the research itself (eg. risk or arrest etc..)

2.POLITE , you try to be polite or respectivfully ,full of it, when a man you 'respect' suffers great pain every day when idiots are joing groups to destroy the use and availabilty of the only plant he finds to be most cheering and encouraging to live while relieving the pain.

Pain is irrelavant either , the cheering is, some say that a man who is happy can do no wrong (from his point of view at least).

If you'll even mention the "mr.a goes n' steals to get his happiness" i'll begin to really consider you stuck, the very reason he'll ever have to go and steal is because he's denied something for even a remotely reasonably price, that's if his methods are moral to him, cocaine is a very corporate drug , so you can consider corporations stealing from you every time their employees get theirelves a dose as well.

Imagine yourself living a world where you find shamanic or witchdoctor methods to be pursued by law (govermental-religious) because some research have found them unhelpful and fraud because by their tools they can't monitor no progress they find healthy.

Some countries even outlaw the practice of many respectible in others 'alternative medicine'.

I recommend anyone reading this book and finding any problems with drug use they find in there and post them directly here.

Well I suppose we have to use an 'addict/non-addict' dicotomy here anyway, as we can't for instance use an alternative clssification based on nationality, profession, gender or blood group, can we!?

We all have our 'addictions', (defined as a learned behavior marked by increasing craving for 'something' & intended to confront or lessen a problem or attaining a particular experience, which turns over time to a problem of even greater magnitude itself), be it the more 'socially acceptable' types such as smoking tobacco, taking caffeine, TV/net'mania' ...; or the 'less ..', e.g taking 'harder' stuff', breaking shop windows & setting buses on fire after our national soccer loses in a tourney, etc...

However, this dz not mean that the we r all hooked onto our lil 'something' to the same extent. Nor dz it mean that 'WE' (& mind u, 'we' in this forum as a whole, & not in contradistinction to a certain 'U') cannot help each other rather than choosing absolute DENIAL as the EZ way out!

So, let's 4 get about naive confrontations, 'over-simplifications'/generalizations, etc.. Not all addicts r in search of pain relief. Some have too little money, 7 some no doubt too much of it to spend! But they all use 'rationalization', 'justification', & 'projection' to varying degrees, some may've had a traumatic life experience, a failed romance, depression &/or anxiety behind their prob, but many have personality disorders & not quite infrequently a sense of entitlement to everything.
In short, I think we can look for ways to try to be of some help to each other & others. Otherwise, we can go on seeing things through our colorful chemical glasses as long & as much as we like (in which case I suppose we've probably picked the wrong forum for passing our time).

the Breaking of  shop windows & setting buses on fire accures after a national soccer team wins as well.

Lack of a profession is a profession, non-Addict is addicted to non-addiction.

Don'y you know that everything is very simple when you want it to be?

Your philosophy very much resembles one of a scientologist , well are you?

I've got a plrenty enough of time on my hands which I could spend 'helping the world' , why don't I?

Maybe i've got enough of a reason not to want to help out the world.

Selfish , ain't it?

I neither claim to be, nor am a 'scientologist' to use ur words, but've tried hard to remain a 'take-things-as-they-r-ologist' & a 'take-it-EZ-ologist' for the past 1/2 century or so.

It's up to u to help others or not ('FREE WILL'), but what about the starving children for whom u were shedding lots of crocodile tears in ur 1st fervent post (or MANIFESTO)!?

What makes..., PART II
Hi all,

Looks like u folks have lost interest in the subject! Or maybe it is that u'd rather watch the duel between Valentine & me!? Let's hear the pros & cons speak up & give their good comments! (After all we 2 also need a rest, if we are to do our best!)

Here's a few subjects we can discuss, whether in English, Farsi, 'Finglish', or...

1.Constitutional differences, ie what make U or I different from each other, & form the rest, both physically & mentally;
2.Life events (& u help me name them..);
3.Mental illnesses, mainly depression & anxiety, although there's quite more;
4.Physical illnesses;
5.Personality disorders;
6.Social & family conditions;
7.Cultural, religious & ethnic backgrounds;
8.Unemployment (tough it has a great overlap with No 2 above);
9.Friends & peers;
10.'Fashion', 'pseudo-intellectualism' & 'post modernity', &... 'fun' <!>;
11,12,&..Well U tell me & the rest plz!

And finally a word of gratitude to our moderator, Agha Mehdiye aziz, who's povided us with 'a place somerwhere in the cyberspace' to get 2gether, & hopefully use as a forum to exchange ideas (& not jus as a photo album)!

Take things as they appear to be.
Things as they are, they vibrate in high frequencies you can only precieve by your six-seven-eigh-senses.

Unlce you know what I find to be my biggest problem which denies me from achieving a PanoramiC view , It's my dealing with definition , sometimes I just can't get out of definitions , like addiction , it has a mention in the dictionary and it's in the vacubalary of most of modern world, it talks about a very popular behavioural disturbance as some may reffer to, and you know what beats me..

I do not know if in your achieval of panoramic view you've come upon things that seem quite out of real other than some pink painted glassed people that seem not to solve any problems to themselves 'in a jiffy' as they reffer, Have you ever heared of any Native american tribes, you must have heared and even studied about them some I hope, when studieng about them did you happen to run into paragraphs describing them as a primitive horde of animal drug addicts that roam the jungles and steal from local markets to buy their daily dose?

Could you please share your persoanl experiance with substances ,you must have such to know what you're talking about ,other than seeing failures according to your values, You don't know how I enjoyed you mentioning the followiing "how about trying glue, nitrogen oxide (an anaesthetic & quite 'fun' too) or mescaline"
How do you know they're fun?
I know of men who would pop pills like candies that will bring a nonimmune man to a hospital with delirium , these man will go to a corner and cry like babies if you mention mescaline to them , the horror , the horror they'll cry.
not thanks they'll say , "I can't handle this shit".
what goes around comes around..

Now go compare native american gods to glue.

Altough you may not be one by your definition , your idea of a mentaly superior man , a superman who can save our modern world from its hazards of addiction , mentaly illness and other "problems" comes very close to the nature of a scientologist superman , in my world a Budha monkey , a shaman or a witch doctor take on such kind of a superman blindfolded.

Go out of defintions uncle , redefine them.
Then you'll get some PanoramA , but remember a world in a jar is still not a Panoramic view of a world.

P.S
I am not a dougter , Yet.
Maybe I am half a daughter..

The silence in here...
...kind'a scares me!

The odds r :

1.Other members r not interestd in the subject as such, at all, or any more,
2.They r, but they'd rather not have me, OR Valentine OR both distracting (as every1 here seems to be dozing off!),
3.Neither (then what is it plz some1?, echooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo)!

Anyhow, Valentine's started to bring up some fundamental, important & excitingly 'yummy' issues to discuss! I'd rather read & enjoy other ppl's comments about, or replies to, these &/or each other; than playing THE (or 1 of the 2)'prima dona(s)' here! So, I'll wait a few days b4 continuing the topic here or down there...

Uncle 'Off to Bed for an Afternoon Nap Like His Cat'

5 days since my nap & still no comments!? Well to start with, there is no such a thing as 2 types of peeps, viz addicts or non-addicts. (Actually there r many types, round about 6 billion something, if I'm right!) Still, we're discussing addiction here, & so we have to 'take off' somewhere; & comparisons & contrasts r an inevitable part of every attempt to try to understand (& not necessarily define in a clear-cut way) something.

No1 can save another1 if (s)he dzn't want to (it's qute different from being rubbed, raped or murdered, u reckon). Ppl CAN however share experiences & learn from each other, ie again if they want to.

Yes I did when I was young! And I was always short of words (u see, caz I too was trying to define them..), & came up with such descriptions as ‘magic’, ‘out o this world’, ‘real life’, ‘somethin’ & u name it…! (Did I ever say it/they was/were bad themselves!?)

However, it’s the habit formation which we’re discussing here mainly.Let me tell u a story to illustrate my point: there was this guy who wanted to give up smoking, but didn’t know how to do it. His room-mate promised to do the best he cd to help him, but only if he was allowed to do it ‘his way’ & keep it to himself. So every nite when he made sure that his friend (the smoker) was asleep, he’d sneak out o bed, find his pack o cigarettes, take them all out, shove ‘em 1 by 1 up his ass; & them put ‘em back! Well, soon his friend gave up smoking (caz he started to hate their shitty smell!), & became ever so thankful of him. But the prob was that he (ie the non-smoker) had developed a habit of shoving 20 fags or so up his ass at 12 o’clock every nite!!!

What you illustrate there , the way I interupt it at least , is an evidence of how great a friendship can be, people taking shit from people they'de like to take shit from and pretty much enjoy it , these two could actually shove things bigger than cigaretes into one anothers' backholes at 12o'clock noon n' night and have a more satisfying orgasmic climax shoving those Freudian instruments than doing the same to a girl, and then calm it with a pleasent hearbeat calming toke of a smoke from a clean pack of cigarete and close the night as the best sexual experiance of their lives.

What are you a nun?

If people feel that they don't like cigaretes anymore , that to them they're not what they used to be, not some fashionable or stylish enjoyable activity among friends to feel the 24frames like "in the movies" ,which's alone is something some can get pretty good kicks from, regardless tabaco is quite dependative even without the chemicals added trough pack'n'sell.

These people will live with a crancky feeling and bitch about it to themselves because they had high expectations, others would still enjoy a cig a day or a pack a day to the rest of their lives and won't go steal from people because they enjoy tabaco, it's quite a problem to stop smoking all of a sudden , but it's a bigger problem to smoke and keep bitching about it blaming the thing to be stronger than you're while still enjoying it in a lust-fetish kind of way.

Nobody nowdays can't say that they weren't warned and blame their friends or somebody else for the 'bad' influence.

People usually make their choice, and bitching about your choice late after claiming that you didn't know won't help you much but trough the symphathy of other people who see that you're not worthwhile.

So what's the problem , hidding toys from 'children' because they might hurt themselves?

Exactly!
Because 'children' (who may sometimes even reach huge adult sizes) have a habbit of putting every new 'thing' into their mouth in order to find out about it (& mind u they may get diarrhoea, & so may need a pacifier appropriate for their age)!

Never tried to be a monk, but I'll try to be a nun 4 a while & let u know.

Such a pity: u missed the moral of the story AGAIN Valentine! Anyhow, I reckon that a discussion of any 1. larger & 2. fleshy 'objects' used to shove into body cavities is definitely beyond the scope of this forum! (There r other places for this purpose in Orkut though.)

ou've just lost my yearn there uncle.

Just like an over-protective parent imposing your romantically squere self-help-guru techniques you've aquired from your idol fathers o' psychology junkies (Ziegmond , Jung , Nietzsche Poetry and Virtue weren't their sole-source of intoxication)on children who want to sleep because they are ohh so complicated and stuck, and you blame it on plants, the food of the mind..

Do your research on the history of psychoactive plants , do your experiments yourself and trust no scholarshiphood or your experiance with the fuck-ups you're directed at.

here here I advise.

And then I'de like you to rebut Terrence McKenna , he's my drug pushera Nut case even.

Thnx for the links Valentine.

My Gurus!? Well, as I told u b4 I hardly ever had any heroes & /or gurus, maybe except for Charlie Chaplain & pink panther for a short while when I was young. (Such a dull & boring life it must’ve been, isn’t so!?) Besides I wasn’t even around back at the time of Herr Freud, Herr Jung & Herr Nietzsche; & as far as I know having some1 as a Guru isn’t something which can be achieved overnite, & on a correspondence, e-mote, etc.. basis; let alone by only reading or talking about what they presumably said or wrote (it usually requires spending some time with the master in concern in a jungle or cave, bed, classroom, academy, etc..to mention a few likely places). Still, I’ll surely check to see what ur Guru, Herr McKenna, has to say about this all, & maybe discuss it with u & all later.

Although Herr Nietzche (who incidentally died quite young & was un4tunately demented during the last 10 ys of his life) apparently used morphine & cannabis overtly; but I doubt if uncle Freud & uncle Jung did so too. (Freud was a heavy cigar smoker though).

Lastly, what turns a little no1 into a slightly bigger some1 to be remembered, read, discussed etc..is a ‘touch’ of comprehensiveness & timelessness. Otherwise the world is, & will always be, full of instant ‘intellectuals’: 1.Give them a subject, 2. pour some water on top, 3.mix & shake well, 4.allow to brew, & u’ll get an instant ‘ism’ in a blink of an eye! So, a little bit of TIME (sometimes ‘only’ a few millennia, as in the case of say, Buddha or Plato!) + 10s to 100s of generations (& NOT just a herd of hailing contemporaries) is needed B4 deciding if some1’s just said something merely for the sake of having said something &/or dismissing their idea as a downright meme & closing the case, deciding to keep on discussing the idea/person, or even turning ‘em into idols, etc..

What makes... (PART III) 03/15/2005 10:11
Well, quite a no of things in the beginning. More & more as we go along. Quite alot as we approach the end.
The biochemical difference reckoned by some to be (at least partly) responsible for a constitutional difference (for the attention of Valentine) however, is only 1 reason why for instance I, may feel a greater attraction to dope than say u. It’s thought to be related to a deficiency of (or an imbalance between) certain peptides in the brain & elsewhere. (We’re still only dealing with the so-called ‘strictly physical’ differences though, & NOT psychological predispositions/susceptibilities).
So this, is surely NOT all there is to it! Being (let alone jus feeling)‘different’ dzn’t mean we shd give up fighting for what is rightly OUR RIGHT, & seek refuge in a world of fantasy which is as short lived as the stuff which helps us think it really exists. (Hiding our heads in the snow, as some birds do, may help to forget the ugly face of the hunter who’s ‘after us’ for only a few moments, but it dzn’t keep him away.)
As we go along, frequent use of a substance to confront our probs, &/or enable us to ‘see them better’ makes our natural inborn mechanisms for this purpose even less efficient than they used to be in the beginning, & results in a completely new approach, ie using the substance as skating shoes to glide/zoom past our problems at the beginning, as a cane to help us get back to our lazy feet later, a pair of crutches to help us limp still later on, & finally as a substitute for our ‘damned useless’ legs which we may now reckon to be a complete nuisance!
Recent outlooks toward addiction tend to consider it as a ‘chronic’ illness, which jus like any other chronic illness (eg. low back pain, asthma, constipation, skin allergy, etc..), can be expected to recur, making such old fashioned ‘superman’like overnite resolutions & slogans merely an old granny’s tale. 1 can be expected to stumble & fall a no of (& sometimes many) times, but shd still be given the FULL support of those who want to help.

You took 'Guru' out of context ,I calimed you to be the Self-Help-Guru, not them, and it appeared to me that they are your idols wherever they're or not, they're as well people I am quite keen of for my own reasons and I am a bit profound of their personal life as well, Freud was quite fond of Coke at the early days of that extract first introduced to europe, he claimed it to be the best thing he ever been on and claimed that it saved him from mental collapse, ohh well, Jung was quite amazed with mescaline and nietzsche was quite a hypocrite.

In 1901 Marijuana, heroin, and morphine were all available
over the counter at corner drugstores. According to one pharmacist,
"Heroin clears the complexion, gives buoyancy to the mind,regulates the stomach and is,in fact, a perfect guardian of health."

But lets forget coke n' heroin they're somehow synthetic and are very powerful way far from what they're in nature.

What is in that psychoactive hemp that you so much despise?

What makes you believe that people wouldn't've been depressed without it?

Or are they depressed because it's there- just as wife ,a friend ,motored transpartation or anything else there's that when taken away from you after the habit built just doesn't makes living worthy anymore because of no emidiate awareness of anything else there's around.. a?

The problem, if you think it's one, is not in the substance, it's in the culture. If you think that because of its danger to the structure of the culture it shouldn't exist, it makes you quite a patriot guard for a culture which you believe is working 'perfectly O.K', if you are not happy with the culture so why are you against something that might change it?

Do you think that people on say THC are ego tripping or ego-loosing? what about Alcahol?

Stop right there, raise tabaco price to that of one gram of cocaine on the street, tell me what do you think would happen then?

Yes, tobacco helps to boost concentration, & is also ‘legal’, but is the greatest ‘silent’ killer of all! So, we’ve got a deal: let’s raise the price of tobacco 100fold. WE can even incinerate all tobacco plantations (I'll personally hail u as a great savior!); as well as those in which coca, cannabis sativa, papaver somniferum, &…r grown. (Whether man was born as Mr Adam or Mr Ape 1st, I can’t tell; but I know for sure he didn’t have a lap-top + some tobacco, grass, angel’s dust, eve, (cf Eve!) & opium in a purse, & some ethyl alcohol in a bottle (jus in case he didn’t like the state of affairs on earth after falling down to it from heaven) caz he was allegedly 1.illiterate, & 2.naked, as he still continues to be when popping out of his mom’s, as well as when getting back into the earth, heaven/hell or whatever (i.e the perfectly natural & unconditioned state)!

Coke was first extracted from the leaves of coca, & has excellent anesthetic properties. Opium was brought to Europe by Marco Paulo (or Polo!?) from China, & later discovered by Paracelsus to be an excellent pain killer & sedative. He then mixed it with alcohol, saffron, & a cple other things & made ‘Laudanum’(from Latin root ‘laudare’ = to praise, & denoting ‘praiseworthy), which continued to be used well after the discovery of morphine. It took Serturner some centuries to purify morphine (named after the goddess of dreams, Morpheus), & yet others to come up with heroin, LSD, &…As for cannabinnoids, they’ve been used by native American Indians, & others, for centuries, do have various pharmacological effects, & OK we‘ll discuss them separately if u like (only note that both opioids & DeltaTHC/ Cannabidiol , can apparently wipe off 1’s blues, but have definitely been demonstrated by ‘scientologists’ to induce depression themselves in the medium-long run); alcohol disinfects, prevents stroke, but also dements & kills in many ways. …

. … Freud might’ve tried & dived into his subconcious with the aid of coke, Jung may’ve found himself hanging upside down with only his left big toe from a chandelier, not knowing what this 1 experience probably cd symbolize; Roger Waters, Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix &…may’ve become more musically prolific after using whatever they preferred…BUT:
BUT these r all DRUGS, & drugs, whether OTC or prescription, natural or synthetic, old or new, narcotic or psychedelic, injected or ingested, used by great people or by the guy cleaning the pavement or the loo; R STILL DRUGS=TOXINS! And this, as part of the the axiomatic truth below is not my verdict Valentine, but 1 of the v few principles on which there continues to be a good consensus between ‘scientologists’, docs (whether homeo or allopaths), shamans, &…since the time of Hippocrates :

ANY POISON IF USED AT THE RIGHT TIME, IN THE RIGHT AMOUNT, & FOR THE RIGHT PERSON CAN BE A DRUG, & ANY DRUG IF NOT USED ACCORDING TO THESE ‘IFS’ IS A DEADLY POISON!

Bingo! Huh!? Oh no, wait! U may claim to’ve found ur ‘drug of choice’ & the exact dose, amount, & timing for it, & hence to’ve become a good ‘surf rider’ knowing how to use ur ‘waves’ & get a free & quick ‘ride’ without getting drowned (a good subject for future debate!), BUT this dz not bloody happen to be the case for the majority of the ppl on dope! We’ll discuss this & the cultural aspects u’d mentioned later.

Aunt Die Hard!

neee!!
You're stuck on terminology again , definitions , Poison , Toxin , Good , Bad... you must be a very clean and healthy person and I hope you'll live a very long time for it seems what you're after.

Stop right there and please read again:

Raise the price of a pack o' cigs to that of a 1 gram of cocaine on the street these days.. What do you think would happen that day or a week after?

   ------

Let me interlude this , since I probably won't be able to get online for a while for I am in the midst of a polar exploration.brrr.

Allow me to explain something, My position here is this of a trickster , I am a mischievos boy and it rings my bell to ridicule with conversations as the one we've had so far, sometimes I learn iffy of them , and sometimes even 'harm' -myself- ,but this was quite jolly so far and I hope I haven't hurt you there, I have learnt some about you personaly and of that I am glad, unfortunatly I havent learnt anything I wasn't preaware of about opinions and positions about the issue of 'drug' use and its long-term and short-term dangers to myself and the public which I am a part of.

I am aware of your intents and I am certian that you believe that you mean well judging from your own experiance.

The war on -some- drugs has been harming more lives than the 'toxins' inside those drugs.

People die - they die in baths , in car accidents and from many many things ,lisiting them is unneccery I hope for you are already aware of plenty of them, but I assume many of those you are not intending to ban or hide them from the public, you want the information on the quality of handling them safely and respectfully to be wide spread.

Whichever you do , doing it wrecklessly and attentionless is probably not that a good idea if you want the best of it.

What encouraged me to provocate you was your facist approach, I didn't not intend to convince you that toxins are 'good' for *you*, or want you or anybody else to do something against own will, what I was going against is the big brother/parent notion of yours towards other people of what they should to be doing or not as long as it concerns anything , Advise and advise if you are sure your answers are fit and you see how they helped or can help.

But it's my choice of which risks to take and which consequences to handle as much as it's yours.

If you certianly believe that some drugs are illegal because they are more dangerous than others then off with you, you're a fool and you're not even funny anymore.

And how much do you know of dangers of all psychedelics, I tought that research on many of them has been halted for they have been dogmatically placed under a tag which made them utterly uselss and dangerous to the church of reason.

Let a man grow his garden and when his plants kill blame it on him and take it away from him.

Let a man blacksmith a knife and when his knife kills destroy his shop.

ta-ta for now , and the answer to my hyphotetic question is "WAAAR!" .. it'll be a war if you take away peoples cigs or friends or any pleasures they find not to be harming to others while they themselves use it and are not in danger to lose it.

but there's a catch 22 there ,which you have figured wrongly again and again there.

I also happen to be on my way to a trip, but to a place where I have to use a netcafe (as I don’t have a lap-top), & so there may be a delay of days-wks B4 my next posts.

Anyhow, the battle of words between I , as a fascist, & u, presumably as an non-fascist, was not intended from the beginning to have a winner (I wonder if any other battle has had a real winner at the end of the day); and I’m glad some points & counterpoints were brought up here, which cd hopefully prompt other people to go & try to find out more about for themselves.

The discussion seems to’ve shaded off to politics & moral philosophy, both of which I consider to be like swamps, & tend to stay away from amap. Also, there r many types of people, but 2 particularly abundant (sub)types u find r: 1.those who’d rather share their experience with others (‘fascists’) , & those who have a pre-fabricated ‘NEIN’ to whatever is said by others (‘non-fascists’).

Health (like peace) is an issue which is usually taken for granted, & sacrificed for power, wealth, excitement, ‘ism’isms (including ‘I AM DIFFERENTISM’), &…Hope u’ll have enough of it in the future to allow u to come back here. I’ll check every once in a while to see if u’ve done so.

everything you've said is REASONABLE in the classic scientific way , but I've actually found not much of counterpoints there, must be that I am more of a romantic after all.

Either I don't get it or it's just you ..
Guess what Sugar is.. A toxin!
And so is Salt , ahh the scourge of the healthdamaging soy sauce.

Staring at the computer screen is damaging to the eyesight , staring at the sun is as well..

Laud music is damaging to the ear.

Mr.hedonism and Mrs.Agony they love each other - dare you to break their love.

Live safe, protect others.

letme rephrase your words to my reality:
two particularly abundant (sub)types I might find r:
1.those who’d rather -share- their experience with others as -the "only" experiance- (‘fascists’) ,& *those who have a pre-fabricated ‘NEIN’ to whatever is said by others -when the others according to *those current point of view live in a fishtank inside of a bigger fishtank which *those habitate, and these OTHERS pre-fabricate all of their logic from this and only fishtank inside of *thoses' bigger ocean which they are still aware of as a fishtank.(‘*discordians’).

Now whos fishtank is inside of whos and whos reallity has a bigger dick, and why?

The majority of the "ppl on dope!" you know are fuck ups, probably ego maniacs or too attached to -one and only- reality -or were at least, I bet you personally know many people who have died from "dope abuse" or ruined their perfectly O.K stable lives in the sane healthy word.

Insanity is very very bad!
Stability must prevail.
Surf the safe earth...
Hit the road...

Hmm so ...
...u're 100% sure u can tell heaven from hell!... ( U r admitting that u r of 'em guys who tend to look at life as black & white, & not shades of gray)

And yessss! Thus spoke a great 'philosopher' (& certainly the 'theme of no meme') called Bob Marley:

'When u smoke the herb, it reveals u to urself'.(Soooo deeep!)

Lesson 1: Know thyself not by thy intellect, but by the virtue of ur hallucinations ( plz see ur local local 'herbalist')!

Lesson 2: Health is basically a 'Fascistic' <!?> thing, & so if u have to compromise it by staring at the monitor or working in a coal mine to earn a living , or living in a polluted city if u ought to, etc..; why not also screw it up in other ways to seem / sound 'consistent'!?

Don't complicate things u 'think-tank', caz there is NO fish tank, & even if there were, it wdn't make a damn of a difference which is inside which, caz this is all ILLUSION (or ILLYOOZHAAN MAAAAN to make it sound like the gresat philosopher).

Still, I'm glad u're around (thought u were sulky for some reason).

Heaven from hell. yes. Tell them? Why not.

Ding Ding! Ding Ding! Story Time! Story Time!

{HEAVEN.}
Once upon time there lived an infamous and most powerful guy, Hassan I Sabah his name was ,he had a legion of quite profound spies and assassins. how did he get power over many of them you ask?
But of-course you know.. he got each one of them into a room with fumes of that "Dope Stuff".. and when -ready- he set the victim loose in a garden of paradise , two dozen "virgins", pastoral surroundings ,tasty fruit... these "Dope Stuff" victims have had everything worth living in that garden of heaven, and Hassan could get them there and ever since then they are trying hard to get back , back to the garden of heaven.

{HELL?}
A traveler walks along an old dirty railroad overgrown in weed, at some point the rails turn neat and clean and he wonders how more comfortable it’s now to walk on the flat railroad rather than to stomp the dirty ground. In the distance he sees a caravan and approaches the man who is busy polishing the rails with a pile of trimmed weed aside. The man tells him how he is working for the company to support his wife and children he has not seen for thirty years. The traveler asks to sit with him and tells him a story about a land where no one has to work. He says a farewell and continues to his journey, an hour walk down the railway he sees another caravan, approaching it he sees a man disassembling the clean and polished railroad, how long have you been doing this the traveler asks, Almost twenty years , for the railroad company ,to support his wife and children he has not seen for almost twenty years, the traveler tells him the same story about the land where nobody has to work to eat or live in a nice place. He says another farewell and continues in his direction but now with only a track where the railway used to lay, in the horizon he sees yet another caravan. Ten years the man says assembling a new rail where in the distance kilometers of railroad loom.

Scientifically speaking, many of the perceptions trough our senses are an Illusion.
What do you have against Illusions?
Want me to grab a dictionary?
il•lu•sion (-lzhn)
n.

1. An erroneous perception of reality.
2. An erroneous concept or belief.

Are you after the Absolute truth?
Erroneous in some sense, true in some sense, true and erroneous in some sense...

Why do you choose to ridicule scientists who have a hypothesis concluded with a temporary fact that reality is what you perceive it with? (Want evidence for that or you believe me?)

Yet you highly depend on other scientists in the church of reason using the same methods to tell you what is physically healthy for you to consume.

Want it or not you don't see things "As they are", you take them as they are according to your belief system and so do I.

Compromises, my point there, you got it all right.
You compromise when you go to work, you compromise when you live in a dirty city, you compromise and it sounds consistent, but why do you live in a polluted city, is it because you have got no other choice?

Are you working solely to make “A living”, and by make “A living” do you mean doing what is required to survive and have mental and physical health?

Staring at the monitor, working in a coal mine or dealing drugs: what’s more ‘dangerous’ generally speaking and why?

What about - what you are actually living for, the little-big pleasures in you life, what are they?
Sex , Fine Food , Literature , Music .. you get your ecstatic pleasure from that , or ecstatic pleasure is too dangerous to have?

You don’t give importance to things as Screwdrivers, you compare mescaline to glue.

Screw drivers make a lot of differance.

Imagine how a native American tribe life looks like …
“hey Red.Feather papa has been smoking that dope stuff , lets go steal some and get blitzed out of our skulls ourselves!”…but they don't have screwdrivers , do they?

Probably Glue is so much more powerful a tool to you since it can actually be used for something other than the crap people are getting from that Dope Stuff, but it could be used that way as well, mescaline , it’s just useless.

How many things you’d need to glue tough to build a world into which you enter on mescaline.
But you don’t want that. And who wants that is trying to escape reality and is doomed to a horrible end.